|Satsang –||Volume 3, Number 15: September 7, 2000|
Doubt Has No Validity
Ganga Prasaad: When you were speaking to us the other day I was clear that doubt didnt exist in my system in that moment. I thought, 'why shouldnt I stick to that when doubt comes?' I immediately recognized the wishes of doubt coming but I saw that it had no validity.
Swami-ji: Very nice. You are good perceiver, thinker, and as well
creator. Why should that which is not there be given validity? Your nose,
hair, and heart are there, but where is doubt? If doubt is not there and if
doubt makes itself appear as a ghost, then why should you give credibility,
authenticity or a state of existence to that which is not there? You are sure
that there is no validity of doubt, but you are a human being. The
human bodies and beings are not perfect. They forget this and think that their
human bodies are perfect. They have already created something which is not
there, yet they think is there; therefore imperfection is to be described
while taking a human being into consideration. Imperfection cannot be your
hair or fingers; they are all right, they only increase or decrease slightly.
We know that perfect [math] means that two plus two equals four. But that
type of perfection is not a human being who thinks that he is a body.
Ganga Prasaad: I remember once someone asked you if you believe in miracles. You said, "I wake up everyday, isnt that a miracle." I thought it is absolutely a miracle that you wake up not to the waking state, knowing that you never fall asleep and never wake up.
Swami-ji: Yes, that is waking up. You have to recognize the state
of waking up, dream state, deep sleep state. We have to recognize that when
you have emotions your discrimination, courage, and faith doesnt work
and then you believe and say anything. When emotions come you dont know
the truth because you cannot apply your discrimination, your valid intellect.
There is a waking state knower with a human being. But the waking state cannot
be compared to the actual awakened state. They created a slight departure
from these three states by calling that the enlightened state. You got enlightened
from the dream and you are awake, and from the waking state you got enlightened,
and you are awake. If the waking state and the enlightened state have the
same name, it is not correct. The enlightened state is not the waking state.
What is it? We began to call it the fourth state, but what is the meaning
of the fourth state? We could call it fifth state, sixth state, seventh state,
eighth state or ninth state, or absolution, babsolution, cabsolution, dabsolution,
ebsolution, fabsoltionwe made nine states when Professor Warren was
Ganga Prasaad: It was said before that just by being aware the seed of doubt is not burnt. Is it useful to attend the unmanifest sense of doubt? For example I notice that after being doubtless for sometime, some unmanifest doubt was kept intact in me which came up some years later.
Swami-ji: Then you are not yet doubtless. If doubt is unmanifest, which means suppressed, and then comes, then it is not knowledge of doubtlessness.
Ganga Prasaad: Is it a misuse of the knowledge when I
Swami-ji: You are not misusing anything. You can know only that which
you know. In certain areas you are doubtless. When you are doubtless you are
doubtless. Those people are now doubtless because the wire isnt burning.
When it was burning we knew that a few people know what to do. We sat quietly.
We didnt stir or become panicky. Why? We are doubtless. Self-awareness
is doubtlessness. You say that with your intellect you are doubtless, and
then a couple of days later doubt comes again. I wont call it misuse.
I will say at this time it was this, and after some time it was that. When
you propose and marry someone you are doubtless. After a year you apply to
the court for divorce. It is not misuse.
Ganga Prasaad: Thank you very much. You mentioned suppression. How can you avoid suppression when you are aware where it is?
Swami-ji: You cannot. When you are aware of that to which you belong, the Self, you will never be suppressed. If all seventy people begin to say, "Ganga Prasaad died." You will not be suppressed and say, "Yeah [looking at himself]. [I] died!" When you are sure you are sure. But you are not sure and that is the human mind. The enlightened mind is sure. Whoever is close to the enlightened state you begin to have a rapport with and interact with because you know that you are that and he is that. But trouble comes when those who have learnt how to communicate with language and can convince you of their falseness and fakeness. Then you will be suppressed. You will never, never, never be suppressed by this knowledge that this world and worldly figures are going to die. Someone may say, "No. They will not die." You may not reply a word, but you know it.
Ganga Prasaad: Can I give an example?
Ganga Prasaad: In order to keep discrimination I avoided things. It is described in Patanjali as disinterestedness when he speaks of para-vairaagya. When I see that it comes again I concluded that I suppressed it at that time and it came back. For example, my interest in my own profession as a theatre director. I withdrew more and more because I realized how much involvement it creates. But that did not stop my interest, my curiosity, and my attraction to that. My conclusion was that I didnt understand it rightly when I withdrew, even though I had to protect myself at that time. How can I understand that interest and disinterestedness?
Swami-ji: It is a general thing. It is not to be considered very much.
You like that thing in which you are well versed. How did you become well
versed? You became well versed through practice. That will become your mode
of living. I am well versed, an expert or I like satsang, so I am doing
this. When I know that too much doing in this way tells upon the health, the
body, then I take a chance not to be with people and give the body, tongue,
teeth or even brain a chance to take rest. That is not my suppressionit
is wisdom. This is not my profession. But you make some kind of work as your
Ganga Prasaad: Is the problem the sense that it is my profession or the sense of attraction that I still have inside?
Swami-ji: It is not a problem. You know that you are a human being
and all human beings have knowing-power, call it the mind, ego, or intellect.
You also have acting-power with your body, hands, lips, tongue, and eyes.
You are supposed to know: what is the body and how it functions, what is the
electricity which makes it move, what are the senses in the body which are
moved by some electricity, who is that who remains when the senses are intact
and the body is not cut, and what is that without which your body doesnt
get into your organization. That you do not know, so you think that you are
problematic. You have no problem. You are born to remove the problem of the
gross intellect, sthool buddhi, which has no sharpness in it. The intellect
has no ability to know who is there when a child is not born and not yet recognized
as a child. That will never be known as the Self, and that knowledge of the
Self is missing by a human being; therefore he is eager to have the knowledge
of the Self.
Ganga Prasaad: It came from my head.
Swami-ji: Yes. What is in your head, which I wont call a problem, but I will say that you are not sure of? Sometimes it says, "Yes," and sometimes it says, "Stop." Are there two heads?
Ganga Prasaad: At least [laughter].
Swami-ji: We give a chance to the student to know that his head is
not this [pointing to his head]. Many times they show you film clips on television
of the many heads lying in Cambodia. Its possible that they arent even
at that place, but the clips show that there are so many heads lying over
there. You are not that head, are you? You are enlightened over that skull.
You must know what is the head, and in that way you must know what man is.
You may call a dead man a man. But that is not a man at all! It is not your
head that guides you to go to work. It is something unseen by the eyes, unheard
by these ears, and unknown by this brain. That exists throughout. Before anything
grew it was. By the growth of the world and forms that has not died, so it
is eternal. The Eternal Being is permeating this body. Someone should tell
you what is eternal in it and what is transitory in it. Transitory is the
body. All bodies are transitory, temporary, short lived, perishable or going
to be devoured by death.
Ganga Prasaad: Thank you very much. I know whatever will happen to this body, it is not mine. I am always yours.
Swami-ji: That is the thing. That yours and yours is the same. Once you know it, you will be able to please each other saying, "I am yours. You are mine." A great sense of love, affection, and a sense of security will come, and a lot of sesame Halvah! [laughter]
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